I’m a programmer. I vibecode a bunch of prototypes and personal projects. I couldn’t imagine being inconsiderate or stupid enough to submit pure hallucinated code to any project, let alone a kernel project. And to have an agent open the PR for me, with code I haven’t read or don’t understand? absolutely insane
Yup. I “vibe coded” changes to a number of projects, but I either kept it on my own fork (it’s open so upstream can grab it any time they want), or thoroughly reviewed before submitting.
Yep, pretty much. The only times I’ve ever submitted LLM generated code to a public project was when it was more or less identical to what I would have written by hand; and even then, I’ve never once considered having an agent hallucinate a PR…
I knew the problem, I knew what the fixes would look like, I had the LLM draft the changes, I read it through and fixed up some slop and documented it appropriately. The code it generated: I understood, I wanted, I polished, I committed, and I owned as my code which I and nothing else was soley responsible for.
That, to me, is a little bit different than pure vibe coding; where most of the time I won’t even read it. Sometimes I don’t even care what languages it’s in. That is peak slop, and that doesn’t go near anyone’s machine but my own, unless they do it themselves (some of the more substantial and long-term slop project I have are committed in public Git repos, but all of the such slop projects are very explicitly documented as such at the very top of my readmes)
My use of LLMs in real projects, where permitted, is entirely different. Mostly used for review and local (not committed) testing. Sometimes tedious mechanical changes, prototyping, factfinding, and brainstorming. But I do the thinking, and it’s my code. My personal vibe projects and random scripts etc are more and more and less disposable, and I don’t claim such strong ownership; it’s cathurding, not programming.
Yep, that’s why I put it in quotes. As a software engineer of 10+ years (professionally, on a personal level, 20+ years now), I can understand code even if I am unfamiliar with the language and the frameworks in question. I know what needs doing (not just random “do this feature, make no mistakes” bs prompting), I know roughly how it can be done, and I let the LLM fill in the gaps.
Plus I also work with a fleet of agents and a collection of skills to ensure its not crap being written. Multiple agents work with specific roles (say, embedded development expert, PlatformIO expert, and so on), there’s a continuous verify-repair-improve loop, strict code quality guidelines and non-LLM checks in place. Of course it’s not perfect, but it gets things 99% of the way, and at the end I just need to review and confirm things.
For example one of the things I maintain is a private fork of CrossPoint reader, into which I’ve integrated BookOrbit, not just as a plugin that awkwardly allows retrieval of your books, but as an actual on-device library that downloads the right EPUBs and syncs not just reading progress but statistics (words per minute, page size and turns, reading time, etc.) as well. The library itself functions similar to a Kindle - all books are listed and with a tap you can download them. LLMs take care of rebasing my changes, with proper reporting on what’s going on and why and how, how the rebase went, what upstream has fixed so I can drop the local version and so on. LLMs take care of API changes to be updated for, optimisations, the list goes on - but before any change is executed, I go in and get an understanding of what really changes.
I can’t imagine myself doing that either, but I’ve seen that happen so often that it’s just disheartening. I’ve asked for explanation of code in PRs and got “idk, the AI generated that” way too many times, and that’s from professional software engineers, people who should know better. The corner-cutting is just too much for me
Same here. Vibecoding my own tools is fine, because I’m the one who pays for the bugs. A kernel patch is different: thousands of people pay for them, so understanding every line is the minimum.
Anyone who sends code to public software should follow a simple code of ethics. A low barrier to entry is great, it’s how most of us started.
But the bar for responsibility should rise with how many people run your code, and right now it doesn’t.
Nah. I’m not anti-AI categorically, just the grift, marketing, and billionaires around it. I’ve built and maintained production deployments that incorporate CNNs; I’ve been using AI (ML) since long before the attention paper and modern AI branding.
There is a valid moral point to be made about AI that is trained on the work of people who did NOT authorize that use of their work, which will then reduce the need for that work (meaning, reduce the incomes of such people or even make then unemployed).
As far as I know there is not a single AI used for vibe-coding which was trained on content whose makers willfully authorized that use of the content they made.
So whilst your point is valid for broader ML (and I personally agree with it), it is not sufficient to morally justify the kind used for vibe-coding or pretty much any LLMs or image generation AI engines, as they’re all trained on content not produced for or authorized for that purpose.
IMHO it’s only sufficient to morally justify things like character recognition or some forms of voice generation were the training dataset was properly authorized for that purpose.
I also use Amazon. I buy my groceries from my region’s local monopoly. I have a Facebook account (that I only use for marketplace). I also pay taxes, a portion of which goes to killing poor brown people for some reason…
Yes, I exist in a capitalist system and consume thusly when it benefits me to do so. Just because my money goes somewhere doesn’t mean I like the people whose pockets it goes into. I prefer using local models for most of my low-hanging-fruit LLM needs, but frontier models have their place, and their uses, and so I have a subscription (which I’ve shifted around a few times).
also really not a big fan of the major chip manufacturers and brands, but I have a computer filled with the things. If you want to open up a fab or a frontier lab and can compete with them on quality and even get in the ballpark of them on price, and aren’t a fucking Nazi, I’d be more than happy to use your product instead. However, here we are.
P. S. I also bought a Nestle chocolate bar the other day, and they’re basically a manifestation of satan. It is what it is…
You’re kinda right, but a few things can be avoided ! Specially… Why the fuck would you buy a fucking Nestle chocolat bar, when there are so many WAY better alternatives arround ?
Just go buy some real chocolat bar in a BIO local market and never touch that fucking nestle chocolat bar ever again !!!
I don’t think that’s actually the case. A lot of people say that, but inference is absurdly cheap, even compared to “api-subsidized” subscription prices. Where the math doesn’t work out is the fact that they’re training new models all the time. Any individual generation of model, if they were to just stop on it, (I suspect) would be profitable. But when you factor in continuous R&D and training costs of chasing the next gen, they’re just hemorrhaging money.
But that’s the game they’re playing because they don’t actually care about selling a product to customers; they care about investors. Nobody gets rich anymore by making a product and selling it to people. They get rich by making a product and then pitching it to investors and then getting bought out by a bigger fish or going public and having a big IPO.
The way the economy works now is that the companies are the products. Or at least their shares are, for a time…
I don’t think inference is breaking even with the rapid depreciation of the chips, etc. but they don’t let us see any of those finances for some reason.
But I take it back about using it as much as possible. Those CO2 emissions are inexcusable.
Every life is precious… Gosh… Stop beeing a dickhead thinking that humanity is the center of everything and the all mighty living specie.
You’are the same group of person we wouldn’t have believed heliocentrism at the time… There is more than meets the eyes, open your mind and stop drinking the fucking propaganda !
AI hurts the environment, and damages critical-thinking skills. It is trained on stolen art and private conversations, sorted overseas by traumatised, disgustingly underpaid data-labelers.
What do you think your phone is made of? What do you think your computers are made of? How do you think your bananas, chocolate, rice, tea, and a bunch of other things are made? Are you going to swear off those and judge those that don’t?
I use a Fairphone (and I’ll keep using it for the next decade, as far as I’m concerned), my computers are second-hand, I don’t eat bananas, chocolate, or rice, and I don’t drink tea.
These things pale in comparison to the consequences of using AI. It’s like comparing the carbon emissions of a gas stove to those of a private jet.
Lmao, you sure about that? How do you think they get to you? Even before AI came along citizens from rich countries were contributing double or more to greenhouse gases than poorer nations.
How much did AI add on top? 5%? 10%?
I don’t eat bananas, chocolate, or rice, and I don’t drink tea
Kek. And you live on air and sunlight too, I’m sure.
I’m a programmer. I vibecode a bunch of prototypes and personal projects. I couldn’t imagine being inconsiderate or stupid enough to submit pure hallucinated code to any project, let alone a kernel project. And to have an agent open the PR for me, with code I haven’t read or don’t understand? absolutely insane
Yup. I “vibe coded” changes to a number of projects, but I either kept it on my own fork (it’s open so upstream can grab it any time they want), or thoroughly reviewed before submitting.
Yep, pretty much. The only times I’ve ever submitted LLM generated code to a public project was when it was more or less identical to what I would have written by hand; and even then, I’ve never once considered having an agent hallucinate a PR…
I knew the problem, I knew what the fixes would look like, I had the LLM draft the changes, I read it through and fixed up some slop and documented it appropriately. The code it generated: I understood, I wanted, I polished, I committed, and I owned as my code which I and nothing else was soley responsible for.
That, to me, is a little bit different than pure vibe coding; where most of the time I won’t even read it. Sometimes I don’t even care what languages it’s in. That is peak slop, and that doesn’t go near anyone’s machine but my own, unless they do it themselves (some of the more substantial and long-term slop project I have are committed in public Git repos, but all of the such slop projects are very explicitly documented as such at the very top of my readmes)
My use of LLMs in real projects, where permitted, is entirely different. Mostly used for review and local (not committed) testing. Sometimes tedious mechanical changes, prototyping, factfinding, and brainstorming. But I do the thinking, and it’s my code. My personal vibe projects and random scripts etc are more and more and less disposable, and I don’t claim such strong ownership; it’s cathurding, not programming.
Yep, that’s why I put it in quotes. As a software engineer of 10+ years (professionally, on a personal level, 20+ years now), I can understand code even if I am unfamiliar with the language and the frameworks in question. I know what needs doing (not just random “do this feature, make no mistakes” bs prompting), I know roughly how it can be done, and I let the LLM fill in the gaps.
Plus I also work with a fleet of agents and a collection of skills to ensure its not crap being written. Multiple agents work with specific roles (say, embedded development expert, PlatformIO expert, and so on), there’s a continuous verify-repair-improve loop, strict code quality guidelines and non-LLM checks in place. Of course it’s not perfect, but it gets things 99% of the way, and at the end I just need to review and confirm things.
For example one of the things I maintain is a private fork of CrossPoint reader, into which I’ve integrated BookOrbit, not just as a plugin that awkwardly allows retrieval of your books, but as an actual on-device library that downloads the right EPUBs and syncs not just reading progress but statistics (words per minute, page size and turns, reading time, etc.) as well. The library itself functions similar to a Kindle - all books are listed and with a tap you can download them. LLMs take care of rebasing my changes, with proper reporting on what’s going on and why and how, how the rebase went, what upstream has fixed so I can drop the local version and so on. LLMs take care of API changes to be updated for, optimisations, the list goes on - but before any change is executed, I go in and get an understanding of what really changes.
I can’t imagine myself doing that either, but I’ve seen that happen so often that it’s just disheartening. I’ve asked for explanation of code in PRs and got “idk, the AI generated that” way too many times, and that’s from professional software engineers, people who should know better. The corner-cutting is just too much for me
Edit: typo
Same here. Vibecoding my own tools is fine, because I’m the one who pays for the bugs. A kernel patch is different: thousands of people pay for them, so understanding every line is the minimum.
Anyone who sends code to public software should follow a simple code of ethics. A low barrier to entry is great, it’s how most of us started. But the bar for responsibility should rise with how many people run your code, and right now it doesn’t.
You shouldn’t be vibecoding at all, bud. Toe dippers such as yourself help move to normalize this crap.
Nah. I’m not anti-AI categorically, just the grift, marketing, and billionaires around it. I’ve built and maintained production deployments that incorporate CNNs; I’ve been using AI (ML) since long before the attention paper and modern AI branding.
There is a valid moral point to be made about AI that is trained on the work of people who did NOT authorize that use of their work, which will then reduce the need for that work (meaning, reduce the incomes of such people or even make then unemployed).
As far as I know there is not a single AI used for vibe-coding which was trained on content whose makers willfully authorized that use of the content they made.
So whilst your point is valid for broader ML (and I personally agree with it), it is not sufficient to morally justify the kind used for vibe-coding or pretty much any LLMs or image generation AI engines, as they’re all trained on content not produced for or authorized for that purpose.
IMHO it’s only sufficient to morally justify things like character recognition or some forms of voice generation were the training dataset was properly authorized for that purpose.
You’re clearly not bothered by the grift if you’re using the billionaire’s products.
Oh, well, aren’t you smart…
I also use Amazon. I buy my groceries from my region’s local monopoly. I have a Facebook account (that I only use for marketplace). I also pay taxes, a portion of which goes to killing poor brown people for some reason…
Yes, I exist in a capitalist system and consume thusly when it benefits me to do so. Just because my money goes somewhere doesn’t mean I like the people whose pockets it goes into. I prefer using local models for most of my low-hanging-fruit LLM needs, but frontier models have their place, and their uses, and so I have a subscription (which I’ve shifted around a few times).
also really not a big fan of the major chip manufacturers and brands, but I have a computer filled with the things. If you want to open up a fab or a frontier lab and can compete with them on quality and even get in the ballpark of them on price, and aren’t a fucking Nazi, I’d be more than happy to use your product instead. However, here we are.
P. S. I also bought a Nestle chocolate bar the other day, and they’re basically a manifestation of satan. It is what it is…
You’re kinda right, but a few things can be avoided ! Specially… Why the fuck would you buy a fucking Nestle chocolat bar, when there are so many WAY better alternatives arround ?
Just go buy some real chocolat bar in a BIO local market and never touch that fucking nestle chocolat bar ever again !!!
Some things are a requirement to function in this capitalist society, but using slop generators isn’t one of those things. You do you though.
Neither is the chocolate bar, but yum.
Personally, I like things that improve the quality and enjoyment of my life. But agreed; to each their own.
That’s an “I only care that it’s good for me” justification, THE Sociopath’s justification.
That doesn’t actualy counter the point others were making - which was a moral point - it just indicates that you yourself are amoral.
The billionaires lose money each time you use their stuff. We should drain them as much as we can.
I don’t think that’s actually the case. A lot of people say that, but inference is absurdly cheap, even compared to “api-subsidized” subscription prices. Where the math doesn’t work out is the fact that they’re training new models all the time. Any individual generation of model, if they were to just stop on it, (I suspect) would be profitable. But when you factor in continuous R&D and training costs of chasing the next gen, they’re just hemorrhaging money.
But that’s the game they’re playing because they don’t actually care about selling a product to customers; they care about investors. Nobody gets rich anymore by making a product and selling it to people. They get rich by making a product and then pitching it to investors and then getting bought out by a bigger fish or going public and having a big IPO.
The way the economy works now is that the companies are the products. Or at least their shares are, for a time…
I don’t think inference is breaking even with the rapid depreciation of the chips, etc. but they don’t let us see any of those finances for some reason.
But I take it back about using it as much as possible. Those CO2 emissions are inexcusable.
“All AI use is bad” is the same absolutist crap as “every life is precious” or “all knives are bad”.
Every life is precious… Gosh… Stop beeing a dickhead thinking that humanity is the center of everything and the all mighty living specie.
You’are the same group of person we wouldn’t have believed heliocentrism at the time… There is more than meets the eyes, open your mind and stop drinking the fucking propaganda !
Edit: haha… Fixed an issue with my brain !
AI hurts the environment, and damages critical-thinking skills. It is trained on stolen art and private conversations, sorted overseas by traumatised, disgustingly underpaid data-labelers.
What do you think your phone is made of? What do you think your computers are made of? How do you think your bananas, chocolate, rice, tea, and a bunch of other things are made? Are you going to swear off those and judge those that don’t?
I use a Fairphone (and I’ll keep using it for the next decade, as far as I’m concerned), my computers are second-hand, I don’t eat bananas, chocolate, or rice, and I don’t drink tea.
These things pale in comparison to the consequences of using AI. It’s like comparing the carbon emissions of a gas stove to those of a private jet.
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
Lmao, you sure about that? How do you think they get to you? Even before AI came along citizens from rich countries were contributing double or more to greenhouse gases than poorer nations.
How much did AI add on top? 5%? 10%?
Kek. And you live on air and sunlight too, I’m sure.
“How do [I] think they get to [me]?” What are “they”?
5-10% is an insane amount of carbon emissions, and dismissing it is particularly inane.
I actually hate sunlight, and prefer living off pickles and peanut butter sandwiches. I do need air, though.
It’s OK, bud. You’re allowed to use the slop machines without feeling the need to defend it.
It’s OK amateur, it’s fine to have an ignorant opinion.
Did you call me amateur as an insult? Lol what?