- cross-posted to:
- gaming@lemmy.zip
- cross-posted to:
- gaming@lemmy.zip
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Windows on a handheld is just bad. It’s that simple. A Steam Deck competitor needs a handheld friendly controller focused interface that is at least as good as Valve’s. Our just straight up ship with Steam OS and use Valve’s.
SteamOS still has many instances of awkward UX and some frankly broken behavior, especially while trying to use community features, it’s just that every other offering has been worse.
It’s heavily rumored that Microsoft is working on their own handheld, and it will be interesting to see how that shakes up the market. If microsoft just makes windows controller/handheld friendly, it will greatly improve all the windows handhelds.
However I strongly suspect that we’ll instead see the microsoft handheld be locked down, only able to run microsoft store games. It’ll still probably do better than all the other non-deck handhelds that way, but won’t really be a handheld “PC” if locked down that way.
Third possibility is that Microsoft might do both, release and locked down handheld and release some lesser improvements for navigating windows with a controller. This outcome would make sense if they have different teams working on both at the same time.
If microsoft would release a gaming handheld, it would probably be locked down like the xbox console.
If microsoft would release a gaming handheld, it will probably just be an xbox all together lol
They could call it Windows Console Edition, or WinCE.
That’s some nostalgia whiplash.
If MS or Google does it, it’ll be dropped in 3 to 5 years, 10 at the max.
Despite how good the steam deck is, any competition is good. With MS hardware track record I don’t have the highest hopes, but again: any competition is good.
Considering Microsoft is dropping support for Windows Mixed Reality devices with Windows 11 24H2, effectively sending millions of otherwise perfectly fine VR headsets to landfill with no recourse. I can see them releasing a handheld with a “custom” version of Windows that allows users to install Steam, GOG, Epic, etc… then bait and switch with a future “feature update” that makes compatibility “too hard” to support or a “security risk”. Maybe the desktop mode is a “developer only” option that gets disabled, or you have to enable third party apps like in windows 10 S and that ability gets taken away. I wouldn’t put it past Microsoft.
Maybe I’m just peeved at Microsoft for deciding that my VR headset will be E-waste even though the hardware is fine, or ignoring the concept of user consent by enabling OneDrive cloud backups for local folders by default while basically forcing you to create a Microsoft account to install Windows if you don’t know the right sequence of arcane f-ing rituals to create a local account. But I don’t trust them…
I expect Microsoft’s handheld to fall under the Xbox brand, so it’ll probably be incredibly locked down and not something you could use like a PC
Don’t get me going on the way the soft keyboard doesn’t always work or that you can’t use the thumb sticks when you have it up. I’m here to enjoy the Steam Deck gangbang but sometimes you get a random dick in a place you weren’t expecting it.
I’m sure Microsoft’s answer will be an Edge-powered handheld interface with the entire W11 OS underneath.
It’s really funny to see how out of touch those companies are with the portable consoles. They clearly don’t understand what makes the Steam Deck a good console. They focus on the hardware specs and that’s it, minimal work on the software side (ROG Ally is at least trying). Valve nailed it with the Steam Deck in various aspects: hardware is good, CAD files are available so it’s highly customizable, but the cherry on top is the software integration, it is amazing and it’s always improving. IMHO software is the real reason for Deck’s success (OS, Proton, compatibility badges, etc).
I bought it specifically because it directly and indirectly supports the Linux community at large. I’m now working on moving away from Windows for gaming, because they’ve made it possible with what they’ve done with tools like Proton and gamescope.
Me too :) I’m gaming exclusively on Linux for more than 5 years now. The Steam Deck was a blessing for this already amazing Linux gaming ecosystem, so I had to buy one (actually two now, I really wanted the OLED version 😁)
I see
- linux
- gaming
- valve
I buy
This is so true. Some vendors try with larger screens, 120 hz and other stuff, but the steam deck is loved most for its software.
Yep. I mean, better hardware specs are a really good thing, but that alone does not make me want to buy a device.
I agree it is just silly and it really shows how far up their own ass a lot of high power business people are, they have no idea what the hell they are doing. The place to compete with steam is the slickness and polish of the software not the raw power of the hardware, that is the stupidest basket to put all your eggs in here as a steam deck competitor.
I think it speaks to a much bigger dysfunction in the video game hardware and software development world, people that get their dream job at a AAA game studio or hardware maker like ROG I think end up developing and testing with dream hardware setups and then totally lose sight of the importance of developing games and hardware that prioritizes accessibility in a cost sense but also in a usability sense.
I think these people pick up a steam deck, try to play Elden Ring at max settings, think “this is intolerably bad performance and graphics compared to my $3000 gaming rig, no one will play this” and don’t realize the kind of betrayal that represents to the rest of us who can’t afford much more than a steamdeck anyways, and have always gamed this way mainly focusing on indie games and extremely crunchy minimal graphics strategy games and playing a cool Battlefield 2 mod like Forgotten Hope 2 while we look at the latest battlefield and think “how much time could they have spent making that game good instead of making it graphically impressive for people that can afford $3000 gaming computer?”.
The hardware vendors treat their products as small gaming pc with a controller, unlike steam.
The fact that it is a open linux device and I can launch in to KDE is the reason I got it. If it was some proprietary OS like other games consoles or Windows, I wouldn’t have bought it. The Steam Deck is such a breath of fresh air compared to how hostile other consumer electronics have become.
That’s a good point! Apple, Samsung and others have been destroying the consumer electronics space for years.
Steam deck feels like a product people at Valve would use while the competition is making products they think would sell well. Turns out the product that feels good to use is much better than the product that looks better on paper.
Well said! The people behind the Steam Deck are passionate about gaming and making a device they would use.
NONE of them have touchpads either. I dont understand why these high end computer companies are trying to sell a laptop that doesnt have even a single touchpad
And it would be even more useful with Windows than SteamOS, Windows only has the desktop mode.
Oh yeah, Steam’s software is amazing in its own right, but MAN, all of these competitors are failing right out of the gate by only giving us thumbsticks to emulate mouses with
Steam deck 2.
Or heck, even 2 Steam Decks!
Something might but it has to meet a bunch of criteria. A lot of these handheld have flaws or drawbacks and none of them are perfect:
- powerful APU to run latest games
- OLED screen
- VRR
- Front firing speakers
- comfortable to hold
- back buttons not in the way, but easy to reach
- hall effect sticks and triggers
- trackpad(s)
- good software for device control
- large battery
- lots of fast ram (24gb)
- full size nvme expansion
Most handhelds I see meet a bunch of those but not all of them.
Nope.
The big thing is that the Deck uses Linux which allows Steam to provide an amazing interface.
All the “competition” still tries to use Windows, and the experience is appalling.
The big thing is that the Deck uses Linux which allows Steam to provide an amazing interface
For most people, i think it’s just that it has a good UI. They don’t bother whether it’s linux-powered. Maybe it’s possible to create a good UI in windows as well, but it will be bogged down by 100s of unwanted processes.
No, Microsoft don’t allow it. As part of the distribution licence you are not allowed to customise the OOB interface.
People don’t know it’s Linux, but it’s absolutely because of Linux that it works.
Talk about digging one’s own grave.
Absolutely. But they want everyone to know they are using Windows, which if there was a custom shell then they wouldn’t.
They have >95% of the market, they don’t care about making a good interface for TVs as they already lost it to Android, and they don’t care about making a good gaming interface as they already have XBox.
Windows users are an inconvenience, that they want to milk.
What’s even more funny is that they already have two, somewhat decent, interfaces which are meant for touch; Win8 tablet UI and Windows Phone Live Tiles UI.
If they want, they can easily work upon them, make them controller-friendly, and bake it into Win11. But they are too stubborn to do it.
They’ve also got the Xbox interface for controllers, the reason they don’t make Windows better for this scenario is that they already have XBox and making a SwitchBox interferes with their plan to make everything shit.
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It’s almost everything. You can play most games on Linux. You can’t bolt-on the quality of life features that Valve has on Windows.
There’s a reason most Steam Deck users don’t install Windows on it, even though you can.
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I can’t speak for Epic Launcher games (I know that Heroic Games Launcher exists but I’ve not personally tried it with Epic games) however Blizzard games absolutely can be played in SteamOS - you can utilize something like Bottles or Lutris to install the Blizzard launcher, and then download the games from it as normal and run them. It is how I originally played Diablo 4 on my Deck before I picked it up again on Steam. I swear I remember both Bottles and Lutris even having an “Add to Steam” option to integrate shortcuts directly into Steam (and thus, coming up in the Gaming Mode UI) but don’t quote me on that one.
Blizzard games are actually some of the earliest non-Linux-native games that I remember running very well back in the days where we just had Wine (before Proton, DXVK, etc) which is something that always impressed me.
You can play Epic Games too, but then it becomes a chore to setup.
🤔
The number of games that won’t start on deck because it uses Linux is incredibly small. If a game won’t run well it has little to do with the deck using Linux instead of Windows.
This is just my experience, but I have had next to zero issues running games on the Deck that were related to the platform. Most problems I’ve encountered are along the lines of the game being KBM-centric and it being difficult to play with the controller inputs.
The only Linux-specific issues I can’t think of are related to trying to install or mod games outside of Steam (Skyrim in particular is far more difficult to mod on Linux than I expected).
Like, can you run gamepass games on there and Blizzard games right from steamOS? What about games from the Epic launcher?
This is what I’m referring to when is say it restricts games you can play. Steam games mostly run pretty well.
Edit: Blizzard games do run
There are easy ways to install and integrate epic games for play into the steam UI (on steam deck). I am playing remnant from ashes multiplayer on it everyday.
All fair. I haven’t tried either with the Deck, though that’s more because I don’t want to try games from either platform with a controller. I have had success running both on my Linux desktop, though.
Oof, bad take.
So much good hardware, but lazy obsession to enshittify them with Windows.
Some of that reflects poorly on the hardware too. With a few exceptions, they’ve shipped a mouse-based operating system on hardware that lacks a good way to control a mouse. If they know that the hardware is running windows ahead of time, wouldn’t it make sense to give users some good options for using windows?
There’s also more obvious hardware issues like the ROG Ally burning up MicroSD cards.
So much good hardware, but lazy obsession to enshittify them with Windows.
Fr
NONE of them have the dual touchpads the steamdeck has either. Fucking seriously… Even if having to deal with windows wasnt a dealbreaker for me, having only thumbsticks to control a computer with is a hard pass for me
Other companies are fools for not almost directly copying the steamdecks control scheme, it should be a standard, that is what the deck is, a standard setter.
It really is mind boggling that they are attempting to compete first mover bonus with inferior products (I’m aware GPD was doing this for YEARS before Steam moved in, but Steam is like apple moving into a product category)
They’re all still amd64 tho, so it’s fairly trivial to install linux on them. For the full Steam Deck experience you could get one of those SteamOS isos or just configure it to launch the steam console UI inside gamescope at boot
I think the Windows thing is spot on. You’re going to be using a handheld gaming device for gaming mostly (if not entirely). You don’t need to run Excel.
I think the justification for Windows on a gaming device though is kernel level anti-cheat. The problem is that you are chasing a pretty select audience. People who will play one of those games on a handheld, and will also only buy a handheld that can pay those games. Also won’t install Windows on a Deck either.
An aside, I probably use Desktop mode more than average, and I have LibreOffice installed on my deck. Jokes on Microsoft though, I’ve been using Linux primarily for ages anyways, so I don’t even need Windows for that.
Only reason I have overclocked Raspberry Pi 400 for net, office and bank stuff are those shitty spyware anti-cheats. This way I don’t have to worry what kind of monstrosities are installed on my deck, because it’s only used for gaming, but you are right, you can manage with just the deck, unless you need some high end proprietary windows software for your self-employed work.
It would have to be game changing! Get it?!? “Game” changing?!? Ah, whatever.
Awful puns aside, it really would have to be a major step up in hardware. The Steam Deck is a platform developers (plus accessory makers and open source devs for emulators and stuff) seem to care about. Even modern AAA game devs will often try to make their games playable on it even if they have to compromise. (It may not be technically possible or economically feasible but devs seem to all want to support the Deck even if their bosses have other plans.)
At some point, it’ll be impossible for the Deck’s hardware to handle recent games and then we’ll all upgrade to something that sets a new baseline and strikes a better balance — whether Steam Deck 2 or a competitor. But my guess is that it’s going to be more about hardware generations than something Microsoft does. (Proton might be nearly perfect by the time Microsoft makes a decent controller interface and they seem to be focused on shoehorning AI into Notepad and Paint instead of doing useful things.)
I’m all for competition and they are getting better but they just miss the mark. While some of them are faster than the Steam deck, their frame rate lows and averages don’t get close to how stable it can be. Plus the touch pads, joy stick functions, 4 rear buttons. It’s everything you need and the price is better than theirs. I had the original LED since launch and have since upgraded to the OLED model and it was absolutely worth it. The improvements they made to the touchpads, reduced weight and a gorgeous screen are fantastic.
It baffles me how people get the ROG Ally over it. Maybe because they hear that some games may not run on Linux? Those are usually competitive FPS’ that I wouldn’t want to play on a handheld anyway and if you really wanted to you could just install Windows 10/11 onto a MicroSD and boot to Windows.
I got the ROG Ally over it because Bazzite feels mature enough to compete, I like the smaller footprint and higher resolution, but above all because the ROG Ally has a shit 2nd hand market and I could scoop one up for $300
Ah, buying it used also prevents having to rely on ASUS for dealing with a warranty when it breaks. This is smart since ASUS will screw you over the first chance they get.
Aren’t steam deck 64gb versions currently cheaper than that? Hell, i could easily sell my OG steam deck for 300$, but was only asking for 200.
How well does it actually run games? Isn’t the ROG still for all intents and purposes, on Windows?
A full install of Windows runs games fine. It doesn’t last long though. Bazzite was not working well when I tried it a few weeks ago. There are a few things that don’t work properly including no control over RGB settings.
I put the stripped down IoT version of Windows on mine. It doesn’t have anything preinstalled. No store, no teams, no xbox, no nothing out of the box. Combine that with a basic telemetry disabling script and you can have better performance. The Armory Crate app handles all of the firmware and drivers. I’m able to stretch the battery almost an hour longer.
Windows actually can run kind of alright when you get rid of all of the bullshit. It’s not going to be as efficient as Linux, and it’s sure as hell not going to be as efficient as a Linux built around a specific set of hardware. It remains to be seen what kind of optimizations MS may introduce when they build a handheld.
So continue to root for Linux? You got it! Go Steam Deck ;D.
You betcha. Depending on what the next iteration of the Deck is like, I might just pick up an OLED when they go on sale.
Yes, but I like that form factor better and screen better, and while it ships with Windows I replaced it with Bazzite immediately and I’m pleased with the performance, I mostly run Indies but the FF7 remake runs 60 fps, on high graphics. But that’s the highest graphics game I have thrown at it
Right on! As long as it works thats all that matters. I’m just happy that handhelds and Linux derivatives are finally getting the light they deserve.
if you really wanted to you could just install Windows 10/11 onto a MicroSD and boot to Windows.
You really shouldn’t. Running dual boot on your ssd is only slightly harder than installing windows, and there are step-by-step guides to show you how
Got a reason why?
Sd cards aren’t meant to be constantly written to, games are fine by themselves, but the windows OS is CONSTANTLY reading files, making changes, writing logs, deleting temp files, and writing over them, etc.
It won’t happen immediately, and it will depend on the grade SD card you get, but eventually your sd card is going to fail and you’re either going to lose data or your windows install will start chugging cause the SD can’t keep up with the writes anymore. Plus, the SSD will be closer to the bus and get faster r/w anyway.
I assume the people who go around saying its not a problem just got a higher end card or are lucky and haven’t had a problem yet.
Its essentially the same argument as “smoking will give you cancer”
Ah thanks. That’s what I thought. MicroSD cards are cheap enough and I boot to Windows once in a blue moon. Rather do that than adjust my partitions to give Windows a home on my device. It remains banished to the MicroSD. But yeah I could see how someone that uses Windows more frequently would want to go that route.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
While other vendors continually push out new handheld pc models, sticking similar internals into different shell designs and gradually bumping up RAM or the Processor, the Steam Deck just keeps selling like hot tasty cakes.
There’s multiple other devices out there now that are in a few ways more powerful than the Steam Deck, but that hasn’t seemed to matter a whole lot to Valve.
Especially since the release of the Steam Deck OLED, which was a pretty huge upgrade, it’s constantly a global top seller for Valve.
When compared with other vendors like GPD, AYANEO, ASUS and all the others, Valve of course have the Steam store to back it up.
Other vendors don’t really have anything like that, so Valve are in a more unique position to stick to one main model.
You only have to look at the new built-in Game Recording feature to see, and the upcoming SteamOS 3.6 that recently moved from Preview to Beta that again brings in some big additions.
The original article contains 314 words, the summary contains 167 words. Saved 47%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
This is an entirely different segment of gaming but recently I have been reaching more for my AYN Odin 2 Pro. I love the size and battery life and how I feel like I can pick it up and jump into a game quickly.
Android isn’t perfect and emulation is in a funny spot right now with the switch emulators pivoting what feels like every few weeks, but it’s an incredible device.
That said, the Deck is quite a bit more capable with a higher quality library of games. Valve killed it with the Deck and the Odin is not nearly a full replacement.
The Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 in that has mainline Linux kernel support 👀, it might be possible to run full desktop Linux on it
Very cool 😎 what a time to be alive for a handheld gamer. The Turnip drivers seem to have very active development, and even in the months I’ve owned the Odin 2, the updated drivers have solved several minor problems on Yuzu/Suyu/Sudachi.
If Linux or Steam Deck OS ever comes to the Odin 2 I will probably wait a long time before I consider trying it out. At this point in my life I don’t have as much mental energy after work to tinker and when I pick up the Odin 2 I really just want it to work. When the Retro Game Corps guide for Steam OS on Odin 2 drops I’ll know it’s time.
I think sometime in the next few years an ARM based portable gaming PC could challenge the Steam Deck. ARM is a more efficient architecture, so it could have significantly more battery life, the only hurdle is getting x86 emulation performant enough.
Yeah, I’m hoping to see better Linux support for x86 programs on ARM and RISC-V hardware. I think the future of computers, and especially portable computers, is there.
With the current rise of PC ARM processor (Apple silicone, Snapdragon X), anyone feel like Steam missed the opportunity when developing Deck with x86 and now they have to stick with it?
I tried Apple MacBook Air M2 with a bunch of games and emulators and it runs amazing while being extremely efficient.
I can run Switch emulator Ryujinx with Mario Kart Deluxe 8 at 60FPS and it only need 12Wh, compared to my PC (i5, 1070) need ~150Wh to do the same thing.
I do think that the future of handheld devices is ARM or RISC-V, but the software support isn’t there yet and would severely limit what could be played.
I agree. First we need to solve the Linux compatibility issues, then we can start thinking about new CPU architectures. It would have been too much to deal with at the same time.
Nothing stopping them from using an ARM processor for the Deck 2
The fact that almost no PC games support ARM is stopping them. When lots game developers start releasing ARM or RISC-V versions, then Valve may consider an ARM or RISC-V Steam Deck. They will still have to have an emulator to run the older x86 games though.
This is where I’m confused. Games for Mac seem to run fine on both Intel Mac and Apple silicone Mac, and run even better on the later.
The only downside is Apple has dropped support for 32bit so it broke a lot of old games.
If Valve can make Proton to bridge the gap between Windows and Linux, I’m sure they can do something to make x86 games run on ARM (just like Apple did and they’re not even focused on gaming, Apple hates gamers)
Apple specifically designed their ARM CPUs to be able to efficiently translate x86 code. A generic ARM CPU won’t be able to get the same performance. Maybe other manufacturers will do the same as ARM PCs get more common.
When lots game developers start releasing ARM or RISC-V versions
That is more than a little funny, given Valve’s release of Proton, and their stance on Native Linux builds (they recommended against it - just use proton)
Id say the fiasco with the m1 chip and compatibility is staying their hand pretty firmly lol
Someone on Lemmy said that would require Valve to completely rewrite the Proton layer (which they’ve invested tons of time and money in) and probably the SteamOS would require significant overhaul too. And all the backwards compatibility would be thrown out the window.
Or in other words, that would require Valve to completely redesign the Deck from scratch.
Considering the trend seems to be a move towards ARM (see Mac M1, Windows on ARM + Window’s ARM translation layer) - I wouldnt be surprised if they do exactly that, eventually.
There’s already some work that might lead to it. As ARM gains prevalence, I think it’ll happen sooner rather than later - once all of those dependencies do all the hard work. The efficiency of ARM for mobile devices like the Steam Deck really just scream for it
All games are x86, so you’ll get that 10-40% CPU overhead.
Steam itself doesn’t even support 64bit, let alone arm.
I think so. But it would be hard and I would be surprised if anyone besides Valve could pull it off.
I have a second batch steam deck and still play it often. I wish it had a slightly bigger OLED screen. I think the 16x10 8inch equivalent is a good size.
There would also need to be a fairly decent CPU and GPU upgrade. As well as either an efficiency upgrade or a bigger battery. I think with enough time if we could get a decent arm CPU with good GPU performance, but that is likely not going to happen anytime soon, this could theoretically hit all of these requirements.
I would like to see hall effect sticks and triggers by default.
That could dethrone the steam deck. Especially if it had good linux support, either steam os or bazzite would be good for me.
the only thing i’d like more than a steam deck is for a portable ps5 (which would be everything the switch should have been) because i want to play rebirth and ff16 again on my steam deck but i don’t wanna wait until pc release)
Short Answer: it’s complicated, but yes
