I am trying to capture costs for starting into homelab/selfhosting.
VPNs, search engines, absolutely everything and anything.
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Domain is about $15/yr
Email for my domain is $20/yr
VPN is about $50/yr
Yeah thats… Pretty much it for me.
Unless we want to include donations? But that doesnt fit the word “subscription” IMO.
For a stretch, subscription should include every rent seeking expenses(not specifically for homelabbing); house rent, water, electricity, gas, phone, internet, monthly bus pass etc etc
Oh most of those I go pay as you go. Instead of a bus pass I cycle and pay for new bikes as required.
Which email host do you use? I can’t decide which one to go for. I want something like migadu but they seem a bit scary with their message limits. The other option I have in mind is purelymail but I don’t know if I trust them yet
My domain’s registrar is namecheap, i tried their email on a whim, i’ve had no complaints in the 7ish years I’ve been using them. Privateemail.com
I checked it out, looks like they don’t support catch all and have an artifical limitation on “aliases”
For me, I think I would like to have catch all working without paying too much
I’m pretty sure they do support catch all, because that’s what I have. Or at least they used to and I’m grandfathered in.
looked it up, seems like a quick setting:
I’m pretty sure I have the cheapest, one email address option with catch-all. I didn’t set up any aliases.
Ooh, thanks for this. Yeah, I got confused by the pricing page
When marketing is directed towards normies and not nerds.
Not who you replied ti, but I’ve been on purelymail for about a year and a half. No complaints. $10.yr is great, and their billing statements claim I could be around $3/year if I switched to their advanced billing. I have nagging concern that they’re hosted on AWS, and if your goal is to completely free yourself of US tech giants, then purelymail won’t.
Thanks for the input! Yeah, I haven’t heard of any bad experience with them. Maybe I just need to take the leap of faith. Although the ownership change recently was a bit concerning but it seems like the operation quality hasn’t reduced
There are subscription costs for homelabbing?
Electricity. Off-site backup. FOSS project donations. Thigh-high socks. Domains.
Thigh-high socks
They’ve even put programmer socks behind subscriptions, world is a fuck
Planned obsolescence means that the thigh high socks degrade quickly, forcing consumers to purchase new pairs more often than they really need too. The fabrics are now less resistant to excessive sweat, moisture, and oils. Shrinkflation also means you get less sock for the same amount of money, increasing the margins for the sock megacorporations. Additionally, the missing sock ghost (who routinely steals socks from a pairs leaving victims with just the one) has struck a deal with Big Programmer Socks to increase the number of lost sock pairs over time in exchange for a large share of the profits.
the missing sock ghost
This guy I have beef with. Also the missing keys fairy.
The socks, oh jesus the socks. So much money.
Electricity $200 Off-site backup $130 FOSS project donations $800 Thigh-high socks $3600 Domains £150
someone who is good at the economy please help me budget this. my family is dying
Im good at the economy. If you turn off the electricity you have an extra $300 for your Thigh-high socks
I hear of VPS and VPN, then there is domains and loads I dont know about.
- Domain for about 15/year
- Proton unlimited (mostly mail, SimpleLogin, vpn) about 90/year
- Nabu casa (not that I need it, but to support development) 75/year
I spend a lot more money on donations to the open source stuff I’m running, but they are not strictly speaking “subscriptions”. Self hosting for me isn’t about cost, it’s about data ownership.
I pay ~$15/mo for Usenet so I can get…news…easily… 👀
First rule of Usenet…
I like getting my news delivered quickly without weird limitations.
Since you are paying, it seems to be worth it. I read a lot of mixed opinions online. What do you find there that you can’t on torrent sites? Or is it just ease of use?
Ease of use (once it’s set up). Getting it set up is the tricky part, but it’s just tedious more than anything else.
I actually have two subscriptions, one for the newsgroup and one for the indexer. The newsgroup access is monthly while the indexer is annual, like $12/yr or something, stupid cheap.
Absolutely worth it.
Heh
and here I thought the idea was to avoid to have subscriptions 🤣
Hosting for two:
- Domain - $300/yr (it’s a great domain, don’t judge me.)
- Proton Duo - $180/yr
- Kagi Duo - $168/yr
- Nabu Casa (Home Assistant) - $65/yr
- Donations to FOSS projects & initiatives - $250/yr
- Lingering security camera subscription (next to go) - $120/yr
- ISP Unlimited Data - $600/yr gofuckyourselfISP
- Typical added network load ~50W - $131/yr
- ~10yr Hardware Upgrades - $200/yr
I just upgraded my home storage setup, so offsite backup is now running at my parents house, saving me ~$250/yr (but probably costing them ~$50/yr in added utility costs)
Why the nabu casa subscription? It sounds like everything they offer you (access from anywhere, backup, voice) is something that you could already do with your existing setup
Not OP
It also supports HA development, and keeps me from requiring my wife to understand tailscale.
Cant you just install a VPN profile on your wife’s phone? Like companies do
Can, but there are issues. As you travel and change towers, that vpn connection has to tear down and be rebuilt on the next IP. Towers are only a couple miles apart best case so at 60, any realtime ip communication gets bad. She doesn’t love running the client full time and just wants to see the ip cameras.
The real solution would be simply stand up an haproxy with https and require a specific certificate to communicate. which i can do… but why when i’d just want to donate to home assistant anyway.
Your last paragraph is explanation enough I agree. But tbh the phone tower thing sounds like an edge case. Yes, if your wife is watching the live feed of the cameras and is sitting on a highspeed train it will happen but that doesn’t sound like a very likely scenario to me. Although I probably underestimate the times you are actually moving while checking the cameras. Cuz idle time on transportation is a good time to do that. Anyways thanks for keeping the lights in the Casa turned on.
But tbh the phone tower thing sounds like an edge case.
The vpn drops and renegotiates, if you’re on a facetime, if you’re on a meet, if you’re listening to streaming radio.
As someone else said, the main reason is to support the devs.
Secondary benefit is the features are seamless and not something I have to maintain. I only have so much time in my day, so I have to choose which things I want to DIY and which I want to pay someone else to manage, but that’s a side benefit to supporting the devs.
Kagi Duo
I understand the concept, free search engines aren’t free, but I’m just not there yet enough to pay for a search engine. I don’t have ads on my network period, haven’t in decades. I also filter heavily through pFsense and other means. So, while I am admittedly still contributing somewhat to a major search engine, at the very least I have still retained most of my data, and search results must be selected with prudence.
For me, it was more the quality of search than privacy concerns. The latter I could mitigate, as you wrote.
But, oh man, the search quality on Kagi is so much better than everywhere else. The ability to just outright block domains in results, chef’s kiss.
Well, I’ll certainly keep it in the back of my head.
If you’re interested, try something like searxng and route it through a VPN or vps.
I do run a Searxng private instance and love it.
I hear you! I was on the same boat - I had telemetry locked down as much as possible, but I eventually got tired of the arms race and decided to give Kagi a spin.
Took a while to commit but a big selling point was being able to bring my very non-technical wife along for the ride.
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You might want to consider Premiumize for Usenet (and torrent cache) at that price. Catch it on the Black Friday sale. I think it does NZB as well.
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Essentially its a paid seed box. It has most things already cached, and if it doesn’t, you can copy in a magnetic link and it’ll torrent it for you and save it to your account cloud (and presumably make it available for other users but it counts against your credits so delete it when you’ve watched it).
Personally, I’ve rarely had to get it to pull a feed for me, it has nearly everything I’ve wanted cached already.
This is why torrents are better! I torrent the highest quality files I can find so I’d blow through that 500gb quickly.
Unlimited Usenet plans are pretty cheap to depending on sales.
Edit to add: I’m not a quality snob, but I’d probably blow through 500GB way too quickly.
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¯\_(ツ)_/¯ i’m on two private trackers that aren’t that hard to get into and I routinely download 10 plus year old 50 - 100 gb files with good seeds. I have never run into something not decently seeded since I went private.
Would love to hear about these trackers too!
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$50/year electrical bill for a Pi?!
Nevermind, I just did some back of the napkin math and came out around 35 a year if I was running one full power 24/7, so yeah, that is the right ballpark guess for a maximum.
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I went off the power supply maximum output. 5.1 volts, 3 amps, so 15 watts per hour. 24hrs per day, 365 days a year, so 131,400 watt-hours, or 131kilowatt-hours. My electricity is about $0.25/kwh (advertised at 0.09/kwh, but when you add on bullshit fees, the final rate is much higher), so I came up with $32.85 as the maximum amount any device connected to that power supply could cost.
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A realistic Pi 4B-only estimate is about A$8–A$12 per year in electricity
That’s about what I calculated for my locale. Roughly $0.30–$0.85 per month, around $0.48/month at 4 W. Which is remarkable especially given what you can run on one.
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I’ve got a drawer full of various models I’ve picked up here and there, mostly used that people were selling. I stumbled across a yard sale once where a guy and his son were selling a lot of computer equipment to raise money for his son to get some newer stuff for college. There was a whole box of them, maybe 10+ and I paid $100 for all of them. I use them from time to time for different projects. Good little learning boards.
Usenet…boy that brings back some memories from back in the day. Surprised that it seems to still be going strong.
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Things just seemed…simpler back then.
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Ahh yeah. Good ol winaock. DLL. Just copy the DLL and magically these programs are connected???
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People still hang on IRC :). Shoot people still use mIRC among other venerable clients.
Yearly:
- ~80€ for 6 domains (using all of them)
- 125€ electricity (480kWh, 0,26€/kWh)
- 540€ VPSes (joint projects where other admins have access, not entirely paid by myself though, still planning to migrate one of them into homelab)
Not counting ISP since we have that anyways.
0.26€/kWh? Jeez I thought $0.14 CAD during peak was bad
Wow… In Italy the average for households is 0.28-0.33
Our green party is and was historically the main anti-nuclear power sponsor
Yeah it’s like that in Europe. Part of it is covered by my mini photovoltaic (600Wp), but that’s not enough.
What are you using those 6 domains for? Genuine question btw
I have also like quite some domains.
One just firstnamelastname to have it
One for homelabbing
One for business
One, because I thoght [email protected] was a cool idea. Now all my accounts run through it and I cannot change it anymore :/
One for my old startup, where I just like the name to much
One for another old business, but my mailserver runs through that domain, and it is too much of a bother to change that 😅
So, remember folks: don’t buy too many domains, it becomes a liability.
Two are fedi instances, one is “official (related to my legal name)” and mostly used for email, one for personal selfhosted stuff I want to access from outside without vpn (like this Lemmy instance), one used to be a local concert calendar which I sunset so it’s not needed anymore. Currently forgot the sixth one lol
Aside from domain costs, I don’t pay for any extra services in regards to my homelab. I pay for email as well because I don’t want to manage that.
VPNs, search engines, absolutely everything and anything.
WiresharkWireguard (VPN): free- SearxNG (Search Engine): free
- Equipment: widely varies
The whole idea of selfhosting is to cut out corporate subscriptions and to retain your privacy, security, anonymity, and data.
If the VPN is for phoning home, of course there’s free client and server software.
But if it’s for spoofing a different location, you either get found out, or you have to pay.
I wanna live in a world where I do not pay for anything but there is stuff that you can only really get if you pay.
But if it’s for spoofing
Yeah. I just thu that in there thinking that in as an example. Of course, you’re right, you’d get clinked.
Wireshark has to be a typo right? I never knew the packet capture program did that.
Ahhh fuck Wireguard. This old brain is not functioning today.
To be fair, Wireshark is a far more memorable name than Wireguard. Sharks are very cool!
I am very concerned about selfhosting and exposing my network to the internet. I thought people had VPS etc.
A VPS is a Virtual Private Server, such as one would rent from a provider like digitalocean.com com or similar. Most of the crew here run their homelab off of equipment located in their residence. If a VPS is the path you’d like to take, then that would be a subscription. If you have equipment in your physical possession, that is yet another path. Either way, security is of utmost importance.
Tailscale being an alternative to a VPS then?
Tailscale is a layer on top of wireguard and is a VPN. Don’t open your home to the outside world, that’s just asking for trouble.
Tailscale is a great choice for you at this stage for accessing your stuff from anywhere and not worrying about anyone else. Downside is if Tailscale decides to enshittify some day you (a lot of us) will have to figure what our next move is.
For the casual and/or beginner, it really is an excellent service even at the free tier.
i dont have that much knowledge about security, but would it be reasonable to expose a single raspberry in a dmz behind a firewall as a headscale vps?
i mean it would be hard for an attacker to get past the physical firewall into the main network, right?
on the other hand they wouldnt need to get past the firewall if they take over the headscale server… edit: but that would also happen, if a vps hosted somewhere else, got infected, right?
Tailscale is a kind of VPN (virtual private network) not a VPS (virtual private server).
Tailscale is a VPN (Virtual Private Network) which is different than a VPS (Virtual Private Server).
ETA: Oops. I see your question has been answered multiple times. It seems you are a beginner at selfhosting and trying to get a grip on what’s necessary to start and trying to wrap your brain around all the acronyms. There is absolutely no shame in being a beginner. Everyone in this community was a beginner at some point in their life. So, don’t be bashful about asking questions. I’ve found the folks here to be patient and helpful.
Do you mean a VPN? Tailscale has a free tier, or you can run a headscale instance on whatever hardware you like.
Selfhosting on a VPS can have its use cases (piracy). If you are worried about exposing it to the internet just don’t and ise company profiles on your devices to automatically connect your network using VPN
For my homelab:
Mullvad: ~$6/month Domain: $8/year
And whatever cost for electricity for running a singular mini PC, Pi4, and my synology.
Cost isn’t much.
Domain and vps about 20 per year.
Spotify not because I am missing a navidrome server. But because I sometimes need the huge catalogue of it to browse.
Edit: 70 for protonvpn. Need those Linux isos.
is that a bundle, or are you rally paying like $0.50 a month for a VPS?
It’s a vps from ionos and the 1€ per month was actually the 1gb ram version. I have since upgraded to a 3€ with 4gb I think so not entirely accurate. Domain is afaik 1 per month.
Domain for $8 a year and 300Mbps fiber for $45 a month which snake ass AT&T keeps increasing in 5 dollar increments, so thank you for reminding me to call Spectrum for a quote so I can then call AT&T and harass them into giving me the correct price for another year.
AT&T just bought my fiber provider
call Spectrum for a quote so I can then call AT&T and harass them into giving me the correct price for another year.
It’s a shitty business model. Over the years I’ve found that in order to get the most out of Spectrum it is necessary to be a royal asshole and live in their phones. Here in this locale, Spectrum contracted with the local schools to be their ISP, so Spectrum became a utility just like water, power, etc. We even have a complaint form on our official county’s website to facilitate being a royal asshole when necessary.
I pay for
My domain: $75 for 5 years
Usenet newsgroup access: $75 a year
Internet: $100 a month.
Domain was £50 for 10 years.
Usenet is £25 every 12 months.
Scaleway for a backup is about £1 a month.Then I pay £10 a month for ente.io. I have all my familys on my account and I don’t want to be in charge of self hosting it.
