This isn’t a complain about the game, neither a compliment.
It’s something personal I guess, not related to anything else, but myself, I think I just need to vent.
Maybe the game romanticize way too much the life in the year around 1900 and the thing is I just love the life how they portrait it. The game is extremely immersive and it’s hitting me hard.
Everything is so simple, there’s so much respect between people, they live camping with a simple life, everybody trying to help to survive as they can, singing at the end of nights, having profound and philosophical talking. It’s such a more human focused life.
Seeing a simple life like that and comparing to the modern world makes me feel sad. Today we have cars, cities, buildings, very few vegetation, a lot of pollution, everybody is so fixed on being clean, good looking, companies rule the world, people accepting being modern slaves in exchange of a little comfort and convenience. It’s truly a disappointment to me.
I’d exchange 20-30 years living in a world like RDR2 shows than 70-80 years in the modern world. That’s right, I’d rather die trying to hunt for food and learning how to survive in the woods than a massive boring life doing the exact same thing every single day in front of a computer.
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Consider this. If you did live back then, if you managed to survive childhood and weren’t a member of a demographic that faced substantial discrimination by the society of the time, there are still substantial and significant limitations to what you can actually do and where you can go.
Travel could be deadly, especially travel over any substantial distance. If your horse is injured or dies in the wrong place or is stolen, you could end up stranded far from civilization with no way of returning. There’s no making a phone call or radioing for help. What you brought and who you traveled with are all you have. Communication outside of those who you interact with face to face or manage to get a letter to is non-existent. Unless you leave a forwarding address in a settlement with mail or even a telegraph service, there’s no way for anyone you actually told you were leaving to have any idea where you went. Given how long the mail can take and the very real possibility of mail simply being lost, there’s no real way for anyone to know you’re missing on a timeline where they might be able to help. It might take years for anyone to even realize you’re missing. If you manage to put up a smoke signal or something and someone actually sees it, you’d be left to hope it’s the right person, who will find you and help rather than stealing whatever you have left or simply ignoring you for their own safety.
Considering how much emotion and thought you’ve invested in RDR, I’m going to take a wild guess and assume that you’re probably a fan of fictional entertainment in general and interactive stories specifically. It should go without saying that your access to these things would not be remotely what they are now. You would be lucky to be literate and to have access to fiction at all, let alone a constant stream of new reading material. You certainly wouldn’t have access to anything like a video game.
Meanwhile, you currently are able to experience an idealized and risk-free version of that era in exactly the game this post is about. You can even join roleplay servers and interact directly with other people who want to immerse themselves in that world. If you’re really into it, there are all sorts of groups for people who are interested in recreating societies from this era. You could go find a week-long event where you can bring period-appropriate gear and dress and pretend to be in the 1800s with a bunch of other people in the woods. If it’s the city that’s bothering you, you can literally move to a town, right now, that’s in the middle of the woods and just live there all the time.
Both going to an anachronistic real world roleplay event and moving into the woods are trivially easy in comparison to the time period you’re talking about. You don’t even have to lose contact with the people you know to do so, and if you decide it isn’t working you can literally just move back.
Everything you talk about wanting here is attainable with less effort and less risk in the modern era. If you think you’re hesitant to leave what you’ve already established behind now, you almost certainly would have been even more hesitant to do so in a time where there was no safety net and potentially no way back. At least today your can talk to others who’ve done the same, and you can even dip your toes in a bit before you dive in.
Period games and period movies feel romantic because you don’t see the whole thing. You don’t die of an infection playing a video game. You don’t have to feel the exhaustion of being malnourished and trudging miles through the snow while your toes literally freeze off.
I would urge you to take a long hike. Walk a few miles through the wilderness and see how it feels. Go camping for a few days. Find a wilderness rendezvous or go to a Rainbow gathering and bring a canvas tent. If it scratches the itch, maybe push it a bit. Go further, bring less modern technology. Keep an emergency radio in the bottom of your backpack and forget about it until you need it. There’s nothing stopping you from getting a taste of what you want right now, and the barriers to doing so are infinitely smaller than if you lived in the same place 100 some odd years ago.
You’ve covered basically everything that could logically be said in response to the post, bravo
I feel so accomplished. 😔
“Everything is so simple, there’s so much respect between people, they live camping with a simple life, everybody trying to help to survive as they can, singing at the end of nights, having profound and philosophical talking. It’s such a more human focused life.”
Have we played the same game? They are murderers, drunkards and thieves who constantly backstab each other.
Came here to say this. Also, tuberculosis.
And games do not simulate smell.
Smell gets normalized so fast, though. It doesnt matter.
It gets normalized to a single smell, or specific mix. But in the West you would have had a continuous cycle of horse shit, cheap perfume, vomit, booze, moldy wood, cow shit, coal, etc. with the occasional ziff of used gunpowder.
Outhouses on a hot day… 💀
Don’t listen to that dude, they work for Big Smell.
“You’re a good man, Arthur Morgan”
Meanwhile the good man in question has a kill count that would qualify for genocide according to most international standards.
Theres more than that
You’re not wrong, but I get what OP is saying too. Most of the camp does like and regard each other, it’s mostly Dutch and Micah that are shitheads and lit people against each other. And yeah, it’s a game about outlaws and will have conflict, that’s how it works. It’s just that the whole approach to life is different. It’s actually living life, actually talking to people instead did “what’s new?” “Just work, someone couldn’t figure out how to update Teams again so I watched a progress bar and went back to my office and pretended to be busy the rest of the day”. Or just staring blankly when someone has the audacity to speak to you, and then going back to being mesmerized by your depression rectangle.
Constantly? The respect between Dutch and Arthur, and Dutch with all of their group, it’s something we’d never genuinely feel in this society of masks.
Dutch is an egomaniacal monster, and like many sociopaths he’s found a community where he can manipulate people into doing his bidding while seeming selfless and reasonable.
Arthur is a broken, violent man who follows Dutch because he’s been sold a fantasy about freedom and family that allows him to view his choices through a romantic, heroic filter. If Arthur allowed that illusion to crumble, he’d have to come to terms with all the evil he’s been a part of.
It sounds like you’re in an earlier part of the story. It’s a long game with a lot of story and character development.
Dutch has no respect, for no one. He is a violent criminal who groomed children into becoming his personal killers.
Have you finished the game?
I’m half of it. but 90h, because I stay a lot of time hearing the dialogs in the camp. Even if Dutch is such a bad person, it doesn’t invalidate the relation between the others of the group.
There are some good people in the camp, sure, but Dutch is not one of them. Neither is Arthur, no matter how you play him. Dutch is a charismatic devil with a silver tongue who makes people believe he is the good guy. Seems like he got you too.
Edit: This whole exchange comes across a lot harsher than it was meant. I understand you, Dutch is a very well written character who is fun to be around. I just found it a bit strange how you romanticized this gang of truly awful persons. But I get it, the camp feels like family. I’ve been there, I would have slaughtered a whole town to protect Tilly.
Wouldn’t say all of the gang are awful people. Some truly are (Dutch, Micah, Strauss) but others are just people trying to survive in a harsh world that rejects them for who they are, and the gang gives them the freedom to be themselves without being judged, even if they have to look the other way at some of the things the others do.
I advice to stop reading responses here and finish it due to spoilers.
If you hadn’t played past chapter 2, that would explain a lot of your view. Maybe chapter 3. But finish the game and then get back to us and tell us your views then.
What about their relationship isn’t possible?
there’s so much respect between people
Unless they were black, of course
Or women
Or native
I understand that it can feel that way, but remember that video games are romanticized interpretations that make things way easier than they are in real life. Life back then wasn’t RDR2 and there’s no guarantee that you’d find the community you’re imagining, and a much higher chance you’d have to deal with the harsh realities of those times
Idk if you’ve played the game, but you regularly have to deal with pretty harsh realities of those times.
OP isn’t wrong, though. RDR2 does a good job of putting you in the shoes of someone 125y ago (as much as a real time simulation projected on a 2D surface can), after all, someone 125y ago wasn’t thinking “man, these times sure have some harsh realities”, it was just the world they knew.
While I don’t think the writers intended the takeaway to be “look how much better life was in the wild west”, they did intend to give some perspective on what “freedom” meant to people in the US 125y ago. And how something things have changed while others have stayed exactly the same.
I’m just saying there’s a difference between playing a game designed to provide a fun and rewarding experience and actually going through those harsh realities in real life
RDR2 does a good job of putting you in the shoes of someone 125y ago
Does it? I wasn’t alive then, and I doubt any of the devs were either. Even if you’re going off first hand sources it can still be hard to know if the perception we have today is actually accurate to how it was back then
Tell me you stopped reading my comment mid-sentence without telling me.
If you think RDR2 is a simple romanisation you haven’t played much of the game…
At the end of the day it’s still a video game designed to be fun to a mass market of consumers, even if it shows the rough parts players aren’t actually dealing with everything back then
Please stay far far away from any suspected cults.
I feel like I decapitated a lot more people with my shotgun than you did. Also, don’t forget about the tuberculosis and saw amputations. :/
I should also add though, the depictions of nature in the game are absolutely incredible. One of the most immersive and nostalgic aspects of the game that R* really nailed is riding, camping, hunting, and discovering the wide open spaces. They really took a risk at making a slower paced work of art that grabs you by the heart and doesn’t let go, and it really paid off.
I hope you play it all the way to the end! Enjoy!
Yeah, I encourage OP to read up on how life really was in those days. I think that will quickly dispel their romantic ideas.
OP has valid feelings here. They are noticing how our modern world is an intermediary in social relations. How removed we are from nature, and social connections. How social connections were key to survival. Etc.
This is all true even if they didn’t talk about the harsh realities of the time too. Or the moral character of various characters. Some of the responses here are missing OPs point. And seem to not be able to parse out the nuance and focus of their post.
I think it’s great that they can experience this game and take this away from it. This is what art is for. And this is part of why RDR2 is such a masterpiece. It’s not just a game of shooting people. It has depth and character and humanity too. This is why it stands tall among other shallow “shooters” or “open world games”.
If you look at what OP is saying and reflexively point out that you only see it as a murder simulator, then you are really missing out on the artistry and complexity of the game. They didn’t say it depicted a utopia. Just that it makes them see the alienation that modern society causes. Alienation from nature and each other.
OP has valid feelings and I doubt anyone is dismissing their feelings. What most people here are dismissing is the conclusion OP came to about their feelings, which is:
I’d rather die trying to hunt for food and learning how to survive in the woods
If the people here were a genie and granted OP their wish and sent them back into the late 20th century, they’d be dead in a week. They have very much romanticized themselves a setting that is a fairy tale and they now want that fairy tale. But the reality is that the 20th century, especially the kind Arthur Morgan lives in the game, is far from a fairy tale. I’m not OP but if I had to choose between living in the 20th century America or live in the right here and now, I’d choose here and now every single time. I’ve camped out in the woods, I’ve grown my own food, I’ve foraged for food. I’ve rolled around in mud and washed myself in a river. I wouldn’t want to do those things (and a 100 other things I’ve never even done) for the rest of my life. I’d rather have the comfort of my home and spend the weekends doing those things when I feel like it.
OP has valid feelings but it doesn’t mean they should reject the modern world. If they want to do that they can start doing that gradually. Learning how to cook meals from whatever they have in their cupboard. Learn how to camp in camping spots. Learn how to tend a garden. Learn how to forage. Learn a 100 other things and when you know how to be self-sufficient and you still feel like the urban space is pushing you down, sell your shit and buy a home in the middle of nowhere and live off the land or whatever. Just learn to be self-sufficient before you reject modernness, because the lives we live don’t really require us to survive on our skills. I imagine most people don’t even know how to cook a delicious meal because it’s far more convenient to have it brought to your doorstep. And cooking is the most basic skill you should know.
I remember the late 20th century, it wasn’t that bad, and certainly not that dangerous. /s
Fuck. I originally had 19th century and thought “that’s like 1800 something but the game should be taking place somewhere in 1900s so it must be wrong” and then replaced it with 20th century. Turns out that’s not entirely true either because Arthurs story takes place in 1899.
OP has valid feelings here. They are noticing how our modern world is an intermediary in social relations. How removed we are from nature, and social connections. How social connections were key to survival. Etc.
At the same time, I think it’s potentially dangerous to come to this conclusion through the filter of media. Media can be thought-provoking and cathartic, but it shouldn’t act as a substitution of reality.
The modern world has problems for sure, but the idea that things were better “back in the day,” artificially instilled by the media we consume, veers uncomfortably close to the same type of mindset that allows regressive political movements like MAGA to take off.
It’s always valuable to take wisdom where you can, without fully accepting everything else with it without question. Media can help you discover something as long as you realize it’s not reality, it’s what someone wrote. For example I sometimes get shit from people for referencing Nietzsche. I don’t agree with everything he believed, but he makes some interesting points about a lot of things, and even then he is often misunderstood as objectivism.
ok now imagine Arthur is black or native or a woman, and re-evaluate these thoughts from that perspective
Can we have everything back, without racism and misogyny though? I think thats was OP means.
Basically, 1999.
Yes, the late 90s. Notorious for its lack of racism and misogyny.
Crime rates in black communities were down! Just ignore the increase in arrests and incarceration of black people due to a push for an increased police presence in “bad” neighbourhoods.
Women had the world in their hands! Just ignore that time when the president of the United States took advantage of an intern sexually, and SHE was the one that was vilified for the encounter, while he is still remembered as a chill guy.
There have always been racism and misogyny in our world. If you think there wasn’t, you either weren’t there, or were very white and male at the time.
Yes, its always been bad. But a hell of a lot less bad than the 50s that the regressives want to send us back to, where a black boy is hung for someone lying about him whistling at a white woman.
Yes, this was the main theme of the game. To Arthur and the rest of their camp, they are the embodiment of the American dream: living off the land, doing whatever they want, working hard to succeed, living a simple life. They see “civilization” and the justice system that comes with it as a false promise, taking freedoms away to somehow guarantee more freedom. And they see the industrial revolution as creating the largest gangs of them all, but calling them “corporations”. So big that they can pay pinkertons to bully workers, while also paying the law to look the other way.
RDR2 really is a work of art. It’s not 100% historically accurate, it’s “the lie that makes us see the truth”.
Have you ever been outside in -40 weather? Or spent a night in it? Or spent a day in 40c weather without ac? I’m only curious cause of your stance. Both suck ass, been at both (thankfully we had cabins available at the -40 weather when the fire went out).
Mean it sounds quant but you can try the actual stuff beforehand, spend a week in the bush with minimal goods, I haven’t and wouldn’t want to. I still treked through them for a month due to a school I was in, that’s the summer side though not hot just usual summer temps.
Not trying to harsh ya or anything it’s just until you’ve been through a month of camping (okay we did have food brought in) or very cold weather for a few nights outdoors it’s hard to be serious about wanting that.
Mean if you want to die hunting? Have at it. I’m just saying you need some build up before you get to what you’d prefer and survive well.
And to those that do it? They have my respect I’ve been in the wild even with food drops, and it can suck for anyone used to modern world. Also I’m in my late 40s my experience was early 90s when gortex was awesome to have as an outer wear and few of us had it.
Also the first game was one of the few games I’ve finished in my life (yes I suck at games plus adhd) and quite enjoyed the second but never finished it. Stuck on a mission where everything is aggro or something it just stopped being fun
I do see your view though for sure and can appreciate it.
-40 is the same in both Celsius and Fahrenheit which is kinda cool. It’s also a pretty extreme situation. I’m not a historian, but I’m pretty sure people would plan to travel to warmer climates, like maybe Tahiti, or have some shelter for winter or they’d be ya know… Dead.
Read “Blood Meridian,” it’ll get you over romanticizing the old West fast.
Deadwood is well worth a watch too.
I mean, it is readily known that modern society has been incredibly detrimental to community and togetherness. People are so isolated from each other and it’s all by design.
It’s the very thing that Arthur and John (especially in RDR1) fight back against. The underlying force that is driving them away: the coming of modern industrialization and the cultural shift across the country that would eventually become modern society.
Our society today is incredibly sick, and humanity has been moving in the wrong direction for generations unfortunately.
people accepting being modern slaves
Well guess what
There a communities that live like that in modern times, just seek em out
I wish it was easy to make part of one. Don’t even know where to begin. I personally never saw it, just read about it. Not to mention it depends the country you live on.
Life demands efforts. It’s not like downloading and pressing play.
Its interesting that you find it hard to seek out the lifestyle that you want when that lifestyle will actually require a lot more effort just to survive
I’m not trying to go camping, but just in terms of finding a “simple life” still requires weaving around a lot of modern problems/realities. For instance I do plenty of unpaid chores for family (today I helped carry fence panels), but I am not going to travel many hours (esp. lacking a car) to meet strangers to see if I possibly mesh well in such a community where I would also likely have to pay rent even after putting in what effort I could.
Sounds like you are looking at the grass over the fence.
It’s always greener than on this side
I live a stagnant life (shut-in, somewhat rural area) so there may actually be “greener grass” somewhere but I am unlikely to ever even see it, which is part of my point. And funnily enough, in a literal sense importance of green well-kept lawns is a relatively modern problem as well (going back to aristocrats) adding to sprawl (and bad for pollinators/other wildlife).
To hammer my point home… on top of USA’s car-centric sprawl, there is also no freedom-to-roam enshrined in law (like Europe has along with the Schengen Area) and I don’t want to end up homeless without even a car to live in.
There are also a lot of other modern USA problems that are reduced or eliminated in other countries (healthcare, tax filing, worker protections, diet). Which is not to say they don’t have their own problems, but being the richest country in the world certainly is not reflected in our placement when it comes to global statistics of well-being (because yeah, our wealth is concentrated at the top).
It isn’t easy and they are few and far between. And yes, it is very location dependent.
I’m sorry you seem to be getting misunderstood here. It’s hard in modern society to find a community that is worth a damn.
Yeah could be slim pickings near you. Do you do any as a hobby? Theres lots of campers i watch who live off grid on weekends yet still have normal jobs during the week (gotta pay the bills somehow). Ive only gone as far as growing my own food in the garden, but gotta admit, eating something ive gone to the effort of growing, caring for and harvesting is a level of self satisfaction that hits pretty hard
I’d exchange 20-30 years living in a world like RDR2 shows than 70-80 years in the modern world.
Do you people hear yourself
