and now neural networks are suddenly the preposterous advance? Nonsense.

voice generators and generative ai are built with the intent of replacing artists, your incredibly reductive “history lesson” funnily illustrates only situations distinct from the current situation and you gloss over making any specific claims about the technology, just broad vagary about the trajectories of technological advancement. I dont think you are equipped to discuss this topic honestly.

luddites are corporate propaganda

??? actually just a plainly absurd statement. this isnt even worth responding to it’s so absurdly incorrect.

Yes yes ubi, but “technological labor amplification” in this case is driving human artists out of the market. make specific claims, quit hiding behind vague generalizations about automation. it’s a waste of everyone’s time and terminates your train of thought before you get to something relevant.

We can discuss further if you make an effort to understand this topic, but so far you are just speaking largely in cliches that arent worth responding to and arent worth your time writing.

Do you genuinely actually believe automation like llm or voice gen are being developed to free you from work? Nonsense. It’s meant to drive the relative value of your labor into the ground so that everyone can be paid less. you see it literally here, a career set you are simply saying shouldnt exist because a corporation can do it without a human getting economic benefit. You should read about the history of the luddites.

The only blind ones here are those who uncritically accept corporate propaganda about technology and walk stupified towards the facade of a sci fi utopia. if you are going to claim that rejection of losing human artists as the barely viable profession it is is blind, at least put the effort in. Dont walk in and go “just like carriages lol” and try considering the issue for longer.

“it’s innovation” and so is letal injection. this is hyperbole to quickly demonstrate to you that technology is not absent ethical considerations.

Animal husbandry is the general term and longstanding one for the craft and profession of rearing, training, and yes breeding, non-human animals. this whole argument could have been resolved in 2 seconds with a web search.

also, meekly accepting technology and automation as some impassive unguided thing outside of control or ethics is nonsense. that is why you are being told you are repeating corporate propoganda – you are.

just use the better libre office. you dont need to pay a price of admission at all. so silly. “i take pot hole ridden toll roads instead of the tax paid ones, because that’s just the price of admission yaknow.” ???

i am confident that everyone in this discussion understands technically what is happening. the contention is, for reasons i cannot comprehend, that apparently “connects to and cannot function without the internet” is somehow the same as “offline”.

jailbreaks actually are relevant with the use of llm for anything with i/o, such as “automated administrative assistants”. hide jailbreaks in a webpage and you have a lot of vectors for malware or social engineering, broadly hacking. as well as things like extracting controlled information.

what money saved on wages?? it’s competing with a dollar a day laborers. $10 per 1 million tokens, for the “bad” (they all suck) models (something that cant even do this job!). if you can pretend the hallucinations dont matter, you are getting a phone call for (4 letters per token, 6 minute avg support call, 135 wpm talking rate let’s say 120 to be nice -> 720 tokens per call) = $0.0072 per call. the average call center employee handles around 40 calls a day, so hey, the bad cant-actually-do-it chatgpt 4 is 70 cents per day cheaper than your typical call center indian!

Except. that is the massively subsidized money hemorrhaging rate. We know that oai should be charging probably an oom or two more. and the newer models are vastly more expensive, o1 takes around 100x the compute, and still couldnt be a call center employee. so that price is actually at least $30 per day. Cheaper than a us employee, but still cant actually do the job anyway.

except current robot systems and people are likely cheaper, especially when you consider companies are liable for what llm say. which leaves, essentially, scams and other slop, as the last remaining use cases. multi trillion dollar business without a use case.

the tech is barely good enough that it is vaguely maybe feasibly cheaper to waste someone’s time using a robot rather than a human- oh wait we do that already with other tech.

“in 20 years imagine how good it’ll be!” alas, no, it scales logarithmically at best and all discussion is poisoned by “what it might be!” in the future, rather than what it is.

regardless of where you want to define the starting point of the boom, it’s been clear for months up to years depending on who you ask that they are plateuing. and harshly. stop listening to hypesters and people with a financial interest in llm being magic.

Oh! Hahahaha. No.

the vc techfeudalist wet dreams of llm replacing humans are dead, they just want to milk the illusion as long as they can.

gets where first?

all this started in 2023? alas no time marches on, llm have been a thing for decades and the main boom happened more in 2021. progress is not fast, no, these are companies throwing as much compute at their problems as they can. deepseek’s caused a 2t drop by being marginal progress in a field (llms specifically) out of ideas.

Well both of those things have been true months if not years, so if those are the conditions for a pop then they are met.

an arms race for what? more efficient slop? most of their value comes from the expected exclusivity - that say openai is the only one who can run something like o1. deepseek has made that collapse. i doubt they will stop doing stuff, but i dont think you understand the nature of the situation here.

also lol, “performs well in synthetic tests it was optimized to score well in” yes that literally describes every llm. Make no mistake: none of this has a real use case. not deepseek’s model, not openai’s, not apples, etc. this is all nonsense, literally. the stock market lost 2 trillion dollars overnight because something that doesnt have a use case was one upped by something else that also doesnt have a use case. it’s very funny.

tech has been subsidizing ai costs by magnitudes for years trying to make fetch happen, slop is slop. it’s overvalued like crazy and the first hint of market competition has drained trillions from the stocks because it’s an overvalued bubble. if china can do that by releasing competition then ok. maybe we should all be putting these trillions in things actually useful to humans.

reads like every corporate admemo. why sacrifice your voice? i preferred the original.

without linking to examples or analyses this is unhelpful.

this is a much better response to the arguments in general, yes, good.